Talk:Keffiyeh

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Arafat's wasn't traditional

The main article says:

It would later become a trademark symbol of Yasser Arafat, who was rarely seen without a keffiyeh. Arafat would wear the keffiyeh in the traditional manner, around the head and wrapped by an egal, but he also wore in the neckline of his military fatigues.

Granted the tail end isn't grammatical enough to know how to even correct... However, I've heard that Arafat's keffiyeh was unique: he always wore a split in the front (even visible in the photo on this page) to symbolize the divide between the West Bank and Gaza. Since I heard that a decade (or two) ago I've always found this detail to draw my attention when I see pictures of him or of other keffiyehs.

I'm not going to make this edit myself, but I'm sure that the words "traditional manner" are therefore inaccurate.

Palestinian national symbol

On 12 December 2023 Fgnievinski added at the beginning of the Palestinian national symbol section "This section duplicates the scope of other articles, specifically Palestinian keffiyeh. Please discuss this issue and help introduce a summary style to the section by replacing the section with a link and a summary or by splitting the content into a new article.". About a minute later at Talk:Palestinian keffiyeh#Duplication) Fgnievinski added "Section Keffiyeh#Palestinian national symbol duplicates Palestinian keffiyeh. Thus, the former should be merged in the latter. A summary could be left behind, in summary style.".

In March at Talk:Palestinian keffiyeh#Duplication) Alitheboss55 replied "I think this article should be merged with the main Keffiyeh article. as this article describes the same pieace of clothing but is only referencing its significance in Palestinian culture, it does not need its own article and should be part of the main article".

There doesn't appear to have been any discussion here. Mcljlm (talk) 20:34, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Please don't duplicate the discussion about the duplication of content; kindly keep the discussion centralized at Talk:Palestinian_keffiyeh#Duplication. Thanks. fgnievinski (talk) 01:53, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

In your note Fgnievinski you wrote "Please discuss this issue" without indicating discussion should take place at Talk:Palestinian_keffiyeh#Duplication. It cannot be assumed that everyone seeing it will assume the discussion is at Palestinian keffiyeh; it didn't occur to me and I only came across your section there by chance a while after starting this section. If the section here is merged with Palestinian_keffiyeh there'll not be any indication here that the matter was discussed. Mcljlm (talk) 14:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Dead Link, archived here:

Please update the Bram reference with the following archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20231201140959/https://blog.nli.org.il/en/hoi_keffiyeh/ --Scharb (talk) 19:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit request: interesting references

Ancient Hebrew depicted on Egyptian stele wearing a similar garment

The 1903 Encyclopaedia Biblica by Cheyne and Black mentions the Kefiyyeh in the "Turban" article, noting that such a head-covering was worn by Shishak's Hebrew Prisoner at Karnak. (shown)

An 1898 travel guide to Syria and Palestine recommends purchasing and tying a keffiyeh under the hat because it "protects the neck and cheeks admirably from the sun" and notes that its popularity in Damascus in a yellow and red striped variety.

The popularity of the red-and-yellow keffiyeh is also mentioned in the 1893 Cyclopedia Biblica by McClintock and Strong.

According to the 1877 Dictionary of the Bible by Smith, the modern kefiyyeh has a possible biblical predecessor found in Ezekiel 13:18 "mispachot" but equivocates that translations vary and the word may refer to a different type of veil.

Cook's Tourists Handbook for Palestine mentions that the traveler to the Silk Bazaar in Damascus might wish to purchase "one of those gay head-dresses that has charmed them so often in Palestine"

"Sudra" in the Bible has sometimes been translated as "Keffiyeh".

Beaumont, in his 1868 travelogue "Desert Wanderings," expresses he must praise this "most invaluable article of costume for the country and climate," pining, "even here in England, in some of our July days, I have, when confined to the more conventional hat, sighed for the more useful and, some may think, more graceful keffiyeh."

I searched on Google N-gram Finder to find the earliest available instances of the word "keffiyeh," before it was politicized, and the results were very interesting. --Scharb (talk) 21:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC) Scharb (talk) 21:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Why distortion?

Why was the fact that the name of the keffiyeh goes back to the city of Kufa removed? Where did the Italian claim come from? There is no basis for supplying Italian words to the Arabs. 91.186.250.204 (talk) 07:20, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

There's no evidence whatsoever, of any kind, for a relationship between the headdress and the city of Kufa. The only reason anyone says they're related is that they sound similar. The Italian etymology is supported by many scholars, who assume that it's a modern word. If it were antique it would probably be traced to Semitic parallels like Biblical Hebrew koba and Aramaic kubaya. GordonGlottal (talk) 03:13, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

There are not many scholars who say that it has any connection to Italian, so why lie? The source clearly says that the word is probably from Italian, and in the same source it shows that it has been known for centuries and was mentioned in the book The Arabian Nights, so how did you make it a modern word? You are clearly lying, man, and Arabic is also Semitic, and the fact that there is an ancient similarity does not mean that the modern meaning is the same, so talk to me logically and honestly, not lying and trying to be clever, and as I said before, there are no relations between Italy and the Arabs to borrow the word 91.186.250.204 (talk) 18:12, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

just give us a source for the kufa word origin and we'll add it 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 18:15, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

this https://www.britannica.com/topic/kaffiyeh

So I hope you remove the claim that it may have been borrowed from Italian in the source, and in the article something else is basically written, i.e. it is a distortion, and I repeat there is no connection between Italian and Arabs for the word to be borrowed 91.186.250.204 (talk) 18:26, 21 February 2025 (UTC)